FAITH OR EVIDENCE?

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Dronfieldman
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FAITH OR EVIDENCE?

Post by Dronfieldman » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:41 pm

Whilst Dave Wood's publication of a series of articles in 'Paranormal Magazine' is welcome, as it raises the profile of ASSAP, I have to raise issue with his contention in November 2008's issue, when he claims that "Spiritualism is driven by faith and the assumption of an afterlife." He seems to have entirely missed the point about Spiritualism because in fact it is all other religions apart from Spiritualism that are driven by faith and the assumption of an afterlife. Spiritualism, on the other hand, take the much more rational approach in seeking evidence of an afterlife via mediumship, rather than relying on faith or assumptions.

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Navigator
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Re: FAITH OR EVIDENCE?

Post by Navigator » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:04 am

Hi Dronefieldman,

I think perhaps Dave knows as little about Spiritualism, as I know about brain surgery. I have to agree with you and it is a very valid point that you have raised in my opinion as an individual. Anyway on the subject of Faith or Evidence in my mind they go hand in glove. Maybe Dave had faith fully believing that he was correct in his Spiritualistic assumptions or maybe Dave just doesn't like Spiritualists a great deal?

Faith often inspires the thinking that can lead to physical creations, exploration and evidence. Having faith in a physical creation and using it to explore the evidence can inspire us to build further and maybe improve upon creations for better or worse.

If I experience something and have evidence that backs up the experience it is reassuring.

We need faith to believe in the Evidence presented and evidence to support our belief as in faith.

However some might argue that there are people that blindly believe in a God or Gods, but does a new born baby believe instantly in a God? I think they learn and are taught what to believe as in education and then eventually they decide what is right for them as an individual.

These are a list of words that could be used as an alternative word instead of faith as follows: confidence, trust, reliance, assurance, conviction, belief, devotion, loyalty, faithfulness, commitment and dedication.

The following dictionary references and example word usage might help further this debate.

Faith can take many forms just like Evidence can take many forms.

Belief or Trust: belief in, devotion to, or trust in somebody or something, especially without logical proof. • I wouldn't put my faith in him to sort things out.

Religion or Religious Group: a system of religious belief, or the group of people who adhere to it.

Trust in God: belief in and devotion to God. • Her faith is unwavering.

Set of Beliefs: a strongly held set of beliefs or principles. • As in people of different political faiths.

Loyalty: allegiance or loyalty to somebody or something.

Evidence can take many forms just like Faith can take many forms.

Sign of proof: something that gives a sign or proof of the existence or truth of something, or that helps somebody to come to a particular conclusion. • There is no evidence that the disease is related to diet.

Proof of guilt: the objects or information used to prove or suggest the guilt of somebody accused of a crime. • The police have no evidence.

Statements of witnesses: the oral or written statements of witnesses and other people involved in a trial or official enquiry.

Demonstrate or prove (convince): to demonstrate or prove something. • Their unwillingness to participate is evidenced by their failure to contact us.

So I was thinking to myself what came first was it the Faith or the Evidence. At first it felt like that chicken and the Egg question as to which came first. Then it all became very clear that it was my faith, confidence, trust, reliance, assurance, conviction, belief, devotion, loyalty, faithfulness, commitment and dedication in my own abilities to sense and explore through experience that makes me who I am.

I think I could say much more, but I’m curious as to what some of our other members might contribute after pondering this question?

Kind regards,

Stefan :)

PS Countless numbers of people have suffered and died for reasons of faith (there must be something very important about having faith) and there is sure evidence of that.
Believe the impossible it's probably true!

"nonnullus qu lema firtivus neus porcus"

© nostalgia: "Emotion is the sum of all beings say’s © and to help remember this adds, think of it as energy in motion (Emotion)"

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Cherill
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Re: FAITH OR EVIDENCE?

Post by Cherill » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:00 pm

Hi all,

I actually feel sorry for scientists and academics who have no faith! I have recently become an 'energy healer'. To do this, I would have said that it takes no faith in any god, just the ability to feel and visualise. Yes - visualise. I suppose we have to have faith in ourselves to do that at least!

What I find so offensive is that the Scientists and Academics think that they are right all the time and that anyone who has a belief system (no matter what it is) is dense, stupid and incapable of logical thinking and reasoning. :? The term 'Narrow mindedness' jumps to mind here! :(

We have proof of instances where a person has had faith in their abilities to sense things and have had this 'proved' on the spot! Can faith be dismissed so easily in light of evidence like this? :shock: I know not! :lol:

ASSAP news has become little more than a propaganda publication. For a few volumes it has done little more than promote PSI and their workings. Now, it is promoting UK SKEPTICS. Strange considering in each News publication they clearly state that "ASSAP holds no corporate views"! :lol: :lol: :lol: YEAH RIGHT!

As for Dave Wood's claims, he wouldn't know spiritualism if it smacked him in the face! Pity those who are so biased and whose life is so blinkered.

Cherill.
Blessed be!

Cherill.


"sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare." J. Ceaser.

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Jane H
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Re: FAITH OR EVIDENCE?

Post by Jane H » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:15 pm

Hi all,
Ches Said,
What I find so offensive is that the Scientists and Academics think that they are right all the time and that anyone who has a belief system (no matter what it is) is dense, stupid and incapable of logical thinking and reasoning. The term 'Narrow mindedness' jumps to mind here!
I agree with you there Ches, this closed minded attitude is quite insulting, but when you think about it they are the ones who are incapable of logical reasoning, Becaue They have their own belief system that is so rigid and unyielding that it simply does not allow them to look at something with an open mind, they belive so blindly in Science and its limitations that there is no room in their minds for outside the box thinking.

Dronfield man said,
." He seems to have entirely missed the point about Spiritualism because in fact it is all other religions apart from Spiritualism that are driven by faith and the assumption of an afterlife. Spiritualism, on the other hand, take the much more rational approach in seeking evidence of an afterlife via mediumship, rather than relying on faith or assumptions.
you are absolutely right, I have been to more Spiritualist meetings than I can list, The Spiritualist movement has nothing to do with faith, ok one of the seven principals speaks about the fatherhood of God, But, It is all about seeking proof and finding that proof as you say through validation by
a medium, And never once have i been told to 'have faith'.

Jane
We do what we must and call it by the best names - R.W Emerson :

Dronfieldman
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Re: FAITH OR EVIDENCE?

Post by Dronfieldman » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:48 pm

Quite so. That is why Healing is never referred to as 'Faith Healing' within Spiritualism. It has been observed that sometimes babies and animals get better through Spiritual Healing and they could not possibly have faith in God, the healing, or anything else. On the other hand, some people with faith have found that the healing hasn't worked for them.

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