Unicorns

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Jocky
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Post by Jocky » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:12 am

I have read somewhere that a whale known as a narwahl has been blamed for people believing in unicorns (how, being a sea mammal, is beyond me )
I saw a documentary last night which suggested that the source of the unicorn myth could be a species of dwarf rhinocerous from South East Asia. It has a horn just like its larger African cousin, but it is tamer and looks a lot more 'horsey' than the African Rhino.
We are led to believe that modern(ish) animals were real although none of us have ever seen one prime example being the dodo. So on that basis i wonder if anyone could argue that they are or aren't a creature of pure make believe.
I think the clinching argument is the lack of any physical remains. Quite a lot is known about the dodo from tangible evidence, because large quantities of bones have been recovered, along with a few eggs and stuffed specimens. OTOH, nobody has ever found a unicorn skull :!:

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Post by Cherill » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:04 pm

I don't know.................. what are you like?............................. :lol:


:D :D You won't find a Unicron skull - ever - because they're magic!!! :D :D :D Tut, tut!

Seriously now folks - wasn't it only a few months ago that someone discovered the skeleton of a different breed of dinosaur? One that hadn't previously been found? :? It was found somewhere in the Americas I think, found by an archaelogical team. Why didn't I keep a reference to it? Because I didn't think too much about it, merely noticed the heading and first paragraph and forgot the rest. DOH! :oops:

If I am right, then there would still be time to find evidence of any mythical animal! 8)

Ah - a thought just sprang into my head.......... (take cover it might explode under pressure :) ), what if a Unicorn was once alive but it was a genetic mutation of a horse and only seen over a short period of time? This could have seen by many people and the birth of the legend may have sprung from it! :lol: Anything is possible! 8)

Ches.
Blessed be!

Cherill.


"sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare." J. Ceaser.

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Post by Jocky » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:47 pm

You won't find a Unicron skull - ever - because they're magic!!!
Oh yeah - I never thought of that :roll: :D
If I am right, then there would still be time to find evidence of any mythical animal!
There's always time - but I think it's reasonable to proceed on the assumption that they won't, until they day they do! If you start saying "There is no evidence for unicorns now, but there might be one day so in the meantime I'll go on believing", then there is nothing to stop you thinking the same about Santa and the Tooth Fairy.
what if a Unicorn was once alive but it was a genetic mutation of a horse and only seen over a short period of time?
There would still be physical remains - although probably less of them and therefore harder to find.

I am not a biochemist, but I would have thought that this would be an unlikely mutation to emerge suddenly - one would expect to find a number of interim stages of differently-horned horses present in the fossil record if that was the case.

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Post by Cherill » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:01 pm

Hi Jocky,
I am not a biochemist, but I would have thought that this would be an unlikely mutation to emerge suddenly - one would expect to find a number of interim stages of differently-horned horses present in the fossil record if that was the case.
I'm not quite so sure about that jocky - look at the likes of the Elephant Man for instance. He was a pure one off - genetics gone wrong! Of course there are illnessess which have caused human mutations but that case was extreme!

If people can mutate like that without any prior warning in the family - then surely animals could too! :?

Ches.
Blessed be!

Cherill.


"sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare." J. Ceaser.

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Post by Jocky » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:15 pm

Hi Cherill,

No - Joseph Merrick was not a "genetic mutation". He suffered from a rare disorder called Proteus syndrome, which was unknown in his lifetime. His story is a very tragic one.

If there is some kind of illness which causes horses to suffer similar gross physical deformity, than I guess your hypothesis is possible. However, if this was the case, and given the many millions of horses which have lived their lives under human supervision, I imagine someone would have identified it by now ...

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Post by Navigator » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:50 pm

Hi everyone,

A myth is a tale so old that no one knows how true it really is! There is every possibility that unicorns may well have existed, even in the absence of any evidence to date. So to say that it is impossible is merely one of an opinion. To limit the diversification of life in all its glory is very sad. Just take humans for example and how unbelievable we are and have become.

There is a four legged animal it has a single horn which is believed to have magical properties, albeit as an aphrodisiac. The animal I’m referring too is of cause a Rhino. If a horse with a single horn existed in the past and the horn was believed to have magical properties. Then the chances are it may have been hunted out of existence, in much the same way that other wildlife species have disappeared from planet Earth.

This doesn’t mean to say I believe whole heartedly in fairies :D (Well I have never seen any), only that I keep an open mind to all possibilities and don’t choose to limit the possibilities for lack of proof and understanding.

Best wishes,

Stefan :)
Last edited by Navigator on Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by toouk » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:06 am

Hi all,

http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/rockratvid/
The first images of a live specimen of a small, furry animal once believed to have gone extinct more than 11 million years ago have been captured during a Southeast Asian expedition led by a retired Florida State University researcher.
Never say never. 'Extinct' species turn up alive every few years. My region has animals that are not supposed to be here, but area residents keep quiet so city folk won't come out and kill the animals. New species are discovered fairly regularly around the world. Humanity's knowledge base of species is nowhere near complete.

BTW, what regions of the world was the unicorn reported to live in? I assume it would be a much more pleasant region, like the UK. :D


Best,
Toouk

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Post by amandac » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:38 am

Stefan.... Shame on you...How can you not believe in Fairies??!! :o

My two daughters would be very disappointed to hear you say that, as they believe whole heartedly!

Seriously, I don't know much evidence there is to gather the idea that the unicorn comes from the Rhino or if any other mythical creature is based on real a creature.
As far as mythical creatures go, where does the idea of the unicorn come from? Was it original a Greek/ ancient myth, such as other mythical creatures such as Minotaur, Cyclops and Phoenix etc?

Love to know more, :D

Amanda

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Post by Jocky » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:50 am

Hi folks,
Humanity's knowledge base of species is nowhere near complete.
Absolutely true Toouk - although most new species which are discovered these days are insects, rather than large land mammals.

the link was very interesting. There have been several cases where a species previously thought extinct has been found in a very remote habitat - the prehistoric fish (whose name I can't spell so I won't type!) which was caught off the coast of South Africa is another case in point

The unicorn, however, is not a parallel case to this, not being an extinct creature - there is no evidence that it ever existed.
There is every possibility that unicorns may well have existed, even in the absence of any evidence to date.
I think the difference in the way we choose to phrase these things is interesting, Stefan. We would both agree that one cannot completely rule out the possibility that unicorn remains may be found somewhere, somewhen - open-minded to the possibility of future discoveries which contradict current accepted wisdom. However, the complete absence of any evidence at present leads me to say "let's proceed on the assumption that they did not exist, until evidence is found to suggest that they do", whereas the same datum leads you to say "Because there is no proof that they did not exist, it is quite acceptable to suppose that they might." (forgive me if I paraphrase you in a way you find unacceptable).

This seems to be a specific example of the differences of approach between skeptics and "believers" (note the inverted commas - B-word used as a convenient shorthand only - let's not go through all that again :? )

BTW, none of the above is to say that I am not interested in unicorns as a myth, or as a symbol. Things can have a value in these senses whether they actually existed or not - rather like the distinction which some theologans draw between the "Jesus of History" and the "Christ of Faith".

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Post by Navigator » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:50 am

Hi everyone,

Jocky the trouble with the sceptical stance of let's proceed with the assumption that they did not exist, because there is no evidence to date that proves otherwise, is that a sceptic is less enthusiastic to go out and actively research to prove otherwise. The believer on the other hand, you could say has no reason to research something that he already believes.

The bottom line is that in most cases a believer will research to obtain proof to change opinions of the sceptics, who seem to do nothing at all to help in the process. This could be seen as me being biased in opinion, but I have personally experienced this sort of cliché much too often, from those who profess to be sceptic’s of the paranormal. Perhaps I am wrong and that there is a third kind of person, who is just interesting in discovering the truth, regardless of their personal beliefs.

Toouk and Amanda the unicorn myth is widespread in many different forms. The earliest references to unicorns go back as far as China 26 century B.C. However the unicorn is mentioned in Greek mythology and was heavily embroidered across Europe in the middle ages. The Christ has even been depicted in the form of a unicorn. Myth or fact the unicorn is known the world over, dating back thousands of years.

Best wishes,

Stefan :)
Believe the impossible it's probably true!

"nonnullus qu lema firtivus neus porcus"

© nostalgia: "Emotion is the sum of all beings say’s © and to help remember this adds, think of it as energy in motion (Emotion)"

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